20131218 - audio of hearing
RELATED:
20130213 - audio of the incident (not introduced or played in court)
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- DIRECT EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. PHILLIPS:....... 3
- EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY THE COURT: ............... 14
- STATE’S EVIDENCE NUMBER 1-6, PHOTOS, ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE......................................................... 17
- CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT:......... 18
- REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. PHILLIPS:.... 41
- DIRECT EXAMINATION OF OFFICER BROWN BY MS. PHILLIPS: ... 43
- DIRECT EXAMINATION OF MR. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT:........ 48
- EXAMINATION OF MR. GRODNER BY THE COURT:................ 65
- CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MR. GRODNER BY MS. PHILLIPS:....... 66
- REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF MR. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT: ..... 78
- DIRECT EXAMINATION OF MS. BROOKS BY MS. BRYANT:......... 80
- CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MS. BROOKS BY MS. PHILLIPS: ....... 83
- CLOSING ARGUMENT BY MS. BRYANT:......................... 86
- CLOSING ARGUMENT BY MS. PHILLIPS: ..................... 90
- JUDGE’S RULING ON ADJUDICATION:......................... 94
31:00
CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT:
Q. Ms. Grodner, I believe you said that - testified that Mr. Grodner had moved out, you say, August or so of 2012. Isn’t it true that you all went to Florida on a trip in December 2012 as a family?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And is it also true that in January of 2013, you went to a hotel in Raleigh for a trip and you spent the night there ----
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. ---- as husband and his wife? Okay. Um, you have mentioned, uh, Ms. Brooks. Are you aware that I-I subpoenaed Ms. Brooks to court today?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. All right. Uh, isn’t it true that immediately prior to the incident on February 13, you and Ms. Brooks had been communicating with each other back and forth about how you could get Andrzej out of the house and be successful in your divorce case against him?
A. I would say that I was - she told me to leave him. I remember that.
Q. Do you remember her telling you to tell someone that he was going to take the child to Poland?
A. She didn’t have to.
Q. So that it would help him. Did she tell you that?
A. I don’t remember.
Q. Okay. You don’t have any memory of Ms. - her advising you to tell your lawyer that in order for you to gain advantage in your divorce case?
A. I don’t, I mean, I don’t remember every single text that I’ve sent or received.
Q. Okay. Do you remember talking about how you can
get alimony and her giving you advice on that ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
Q. ---- on February - excuse me - on February 12th?
THE COURT: So the question is do you remember her telling you about how to get alimony on February the 12th?
MS. BRYANT: 2013.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. BRYANT: occurred, Your Honor. Right before this alleged incident
THE COURT: Your objection is based on relevance?
MS. PHILLIPS: It, I mean, yes.
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
Q. Do you recall her talking with you about how to get alimony?
A. No, ma’am. I’m sure, I mean, it’s obvious that you have the text messages, so I won’t dispute it, but if you ask me if I remember, I do not recall.
Q. Okay. Do you recall asking her the question of how to get alimony?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Do you recall that? You don’t recall that?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay. Uh, is it your testimony under oath today that you have no memory of your own of-of discussions with
Ms. Brooks about how to get alimony?
A. How to get alimony? No. I don’t remember the specific conversations if that’s your question.
Q. Do you remember any general conversations?
A. I remember telling her about my marital problems with Andrzej, and I remember her telling me that I should leave him, based on his actions.
Q. Um, do you recall asking her, or her telling you, to get full custody, say he threatened to take your child to another country?
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection. I-I’m just renewing my objection at this point. I mean, if the question was, perhaps, tell the police - did she say, “Tell the police he pushed her in the bathtub so that you can get a divorce,” I think we’re looking at a different thing. But right now you’re talking about alimony and taking the kid to Poland, I mean ----
THE COURT: I understand the objection.
MS. BRYANT: And the motive is ----
THE COURT: It goes to impeachment.
MS. BRYANT: ---- It goes to impeachment. Also
to motive as to why this claim is being made.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. BRYANT: And that’s the only reason.
THE COURT: (Inaudible). Overruled. MS. BRYANT: Okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT CONTINUES:
Q. Why did you call Valerie Brooks before you called the police on that morning?
A. I was scared, and I was shaken, and I don’t have frequent courtroom experience or I’m-I’m not, I mean, I’m a special education teacher and I don’t know what to do. So that’s, I mean.
Q. What did she tell you to do?
A. Call 9-1-1.
Q. Did she call 9-1-1 for you?
A. She also called 9-1-1, in addition to me calling independently.
Q. Do you recall her texting you saying that she was going to call 9-1-1?
A. Um, she left me a voicemail, um, in addition to me talking to her. I don’t remember the specific content of that whole thing.
Q. You called your mother, didn’t you, before you called the police, as well?
A. Yes. I don’t deny that. I also called my mom. I had no idea what to do. I also called Melba Buck (phonetic) because I had no idea what to do. And they all told me to call 9-1-1.
Q. Okay. Let me ask you this about the-the incident. You, on February, Monday, February the, um, 11th, you called Mr. Grodner and told him that you wanted him to move out of the marital home, didn’t you?
A. I didn’t have to call him and tell him that.
Q. Did you - objection, Your Honor. Would you ask her to answer the question? The question was, “Did you call him?”
THE COURT: You need to answer yes or no
(inaudible) explaining or anything. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
Q. Did you call him on February 11 and tell him you wanted him to move out of the-the marital home?
A. I recall that as a face-to-face conversation.
Q. Tell me when that occurred then.
A. In the evening, after he got home.
Q. Okay. And it’s your testimony under oath today that you did not call him when he was not at home and tell him that over the phone?
A. I - in addition, I could have done that. But I re- I recall telling, or asking, him to leave.
Q. Do you recall him asking you whether or not you had an order to make him leave the marital home? Do you recall him asking you that?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. You don’t recall him asking you anything about a court order?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Do you recall telling him anything about you were going to get one?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. All right. On - you say that Mr. Grodner put a chain lock on his door. Isn’t it true that he did that on, um, Tuesday, after you had asked him to leave? On a door in the home?
A. I discovered it on Tuesday, after I had asked him to leave, and it was on the inside of my son’s bedroom door. Q. Okay. Are you suggesting that perhaps he had done it beforehand and you didn’t see it, or are you not admitting that he put it up there after you asked him to leave?
A. I’m just saying that I definitely know that it was there as of Tuesday morning. Um, so that’s what I feel comfortable in a hundred percent telling you.
Q. All right.
A. So, if - if I discovered it Tuesday morning and I asked him to leave Monday night, then, logically, he would have put it up there following my request.
Q. Okay. And there is - as far as your son’s room is concerned, there is a webcam in that room, in that nursery, so you, for you to see what’s going on in there, isn’t it? Isn’t there?
A. At the time, there was. Yes, ma’am.
Q. All right. Now you testified that you allegedly had fear, or those types of things, when this was going on.
Why did you give him the phone back?
A. Give who the ----
Mr. Grodner - the phone. His phone. Why did you give him his phone?
A. Why did I return to him his phone?
Q. That’s - that’s the question.
A. Because why would I keep it? It’s his phone.
Q. Okay. You testified you took the phone from him. I believe you used the word “plucked.” Do you use the word “pluck” to - so it won’t seem as if you touched him when you got - took it from him?
A. I used the word “pluck” because it’s a factual representation of what I did, and I did not touch him.
Q. Okay. Uh-huh. And, uh, when you took the phone when he - did he ask for you to return the phone? Did he say, “Give me my phone, please give me my phone”? Did he ever say that to you?
A. He was screaming and hollering and charging at me. I don’t know if he ever specifically said, “Please return my phone to me.”
Q. Do you recall him saying anything about giving him your phone [sic], or is it your testimony he just was charging at you and not saying anything about giving him the phone?
A. I’m not sure what the specific content of his words was while he was charging me because I was scared because he was charging me and he had my child, so. When you say, “charge,” ---- A. (Inaudible).
Q. ---- what do you mean? You mean, did he run you down. Is that what you’re gonna [sic] say today; is that your testimony?
A. Absolutely. Yes. He pursued, and I retreated.
Q. Okay. And all the time you had the phone in your hand. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You never gave him the phone - you never gave him the phone back to stop this alleged charging, did you?
A. It was too late. He already pushed me down, by that - I mean, I didn’t have time to - he didn’t sit down and ask for a pleasant exchange. He was screaming at me, hollering, running, holding my - I mean, I wouldn’t say “running,” but ----
Q. Okay.
A. ---- he was pursuing me and I was retreating.
Q. How long did it take you to pluck the phone away from him?
A. Quick; seconds.
Q. You don’t think it would have taken you the same amount of time to give it back to him?
A. He was already charging me, so I didn’t know, like, how am I supposed to know what will stop a man who’s hurting (phonetic) me? Who’s pursuing me.
Q. Screaming if he was to ask you to give him the phone back. Wasn’t he?
A. Well, he-I did give him back ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. I gave it back, um, after he knocked me into the bathtub. I just handed it up to him.
Q. Your testimony is you handed him the phone after you say he pushed you into the bathtub. Is that what your testimony is today?
A. Either that or I left it in the bathroom.
Q. Okay.
A. (Inaudible).
Q. It was left in the bathtub, wasn’t it?
A. You know, I don’t - this has been almost a year, so I’m a little hazy, but I know that I did not retain it in my possession or try to keep it from him.
Q. Did you take any medications on that morning?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Have - do you have any medications that have been prescribed to you by a psychiatrist?
A. No, ma’am.
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. No, ma’am. I don’t.
Q. Okay. And isn’t it true that although you say he allegedly pushed you in the bathtub and you feared, you were in fear, you took the memory card out of the phone before you got out of the bathroom?
A. I took it out. Yes.
Q. You took a memory card out of a phone after you say you were charged and assaulted. You took a memory card out of the phone.
A. While he was pursuing me, I was able to take it out. I worked for Verizon Wireless for years.
Q. Your testimony is you took it out before you, um, fell in the bathtub?
A. I’m not sure if I took it out before - by the time I was at the bottom of the bathtub and he had already assaulted me, I had that memory card.
Q. Why would you say the “bottom of the bathtub”? What - do you have some type of deep bath or is it just a regular, standard bathtub?
A. I guess it’s just an improper adjective I’m using - “bottom.” I mean I was not beside the tub; I was at the bottom of it.
Q. Does it suggest to you sort of like a - a push is something that’s more significant to say “at the bottom of the tub” instead of you were pushed in the tub?
A. Well, it’s not the side or the top of the tub. It’s not the top of the tub. It’s the bottom of the tub. I teach English language lessons almost every day.
Q. Isn’t it true that you were attempting to, um, throw the - it, the phone - into the commode, and that is what happened with you, if there was any contact between you and Mr. Grodner, that’s where it came, with you trying to throw the phone into the commode?
A. It was never my intent to throw anything into a toilet.
Q. Now, you’ve thrown things of his in the toilet before, recording devices, haven’t you?
A. That Saturday, yes, I did.
Q. Okay. And that, was that, uh, this type of recorder? Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
A. It was one similar to that. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And you flushed it down the commode, didn’t you?
A. Yes, ma’am. He was recording me, um, at a children’s birthday party ---
Q. Uh-huh.
A. --- (inaudible), and I saw no reason for it. I mean, who does that?
Q. Okay.
A. So I flushed it down the toilet at (inaudible) because there’s no reason to record a children’s birthday party at (inaudible).
Q. And you, Mr. Grodner pled and begged you to give you his phone back before, um, you got near the commode, didn’t he?
A. Pled and begged?
Q. That’s correct.
A. He was screaming at me.
Q. Okay.
A. Hollering, yelling.
Q. You’re aware that that - where is that memory card?
A. I still have it.
Q. Where is it?
A. Um, most likely my house.
Q. Okay. And you say the recorder was on, don’t you?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. (Inaudible). Okay. And you didn’t bring it to court today to show the Court to hear what occurred between you and Mr. Grodner, did you?
A. It never recorded. It never even recorded. I have it. It never recorded.
Q. What do you mean, “It never recorded”?
A. I mean he was doing like this, like he was recording. He had a history of recording me, and - but when I got the memory card, there was no recording of that episode on it. He has a voice-activated, uh, recorder planted on him when the police arrested him. You can ask him about that.
Q. I’m asking you about the recorder. The digital recorder.
A. Okay. Well, I don’t have, um, a video to show you on a memory card because none exists.
Q. When did you look at it, the mem- what was on the memory card?
A. Probably, the next day.
Q. Are you aware that you’re under oath and your testimony could be used in your divorce and financial issues cases?
A. Absolutely. (inaudible)
Q. And so your testi-, your testimony is you have the memory card at home?
A. Yes. I do have the memory card at home.
Q. Isn’t it true that, um, after you went downstairs, uh, in the laundry room, prior to the police coming, that you and Mr. Grodner took care of Lucas together in the same room before the police came?
A. I wouldn’t say that we took care of Lucas together. I took care of Lucas while Andrzej hovered over me, saying,
“You weren’t scared, were you; you didn’t feel threatened, did you; I didn’t hurt you, did I?” as I changed the baby’s diaper.
Q. Okay. So you - the point is you went back into his presence.
A. To get my son. Absolutely.
Q. Okay. And so you, the both, the two of you were in the room together. Is that right?
A. We were in the hallway together, of our upstairs. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Now, now Mr. Grodner knew that you took the memory card. Um, he noticed that, didn’t he?
A. I’m sure he was aware of it by that time. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Did he do anything to you, once he knew you had the memory card, when you left out with the memory card?
A. Other than apologize for assaulting me, no, ma’am.
Q. Mmm. Didn’t try to get it from you, did he? Didn’t try to grab the memory card from you, did he? A. There was no further assault.
Q. He didn’t run downstairs and follow you to the laundry room to try to get the memory card, did he?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. And no one’s in the house but you and Mr. Grodner and Lucas. Is that right?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Has Ms. Grodner advised - I’m sorry, Ms., um, Ms. Brooks, advise you per text communications to be dishonest if you have to in order to get Lucas in court?
A. I’m sure she has.
Q. And have you responded to her, “Cool,” when - and she has advised you of that? Do you recall responding, “Cool,” c-o-o-l?
A. I’m sure I would say, “Cool,” even if I hadn’t lied to you and I never would. And I would never lie to anyone in court, but I’m not going to say, “What’s wrong with you? You’re so ghetto. You actually lie on the stand.” I would never do - I’m not going to say that to my friend. So I just said, “Okay, cool.” You can’t tell (inaudible).
Q. And you continued to seek advice from her after that, didn’t you, about how to handle the situation?
A. I’m sure I have, but just because I asked her questions doesn’t mean I’m going to do everything that she says that I should do.
Q. Did you get an order, on February 13th?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And that’s been dismissed, hasn’t it? That DVPO. The dom- the civil domestic violence protective order case has been dismissed. Is that correct?
A. I agreed to drop it.
Q. Okay.
A. On the condition - I can explain it if you ask, I guess.
Q. I asked you had it been dismissed.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. You have a small bathroom, don’t you, Ms., uh, Grodner?
A. I would say it’s on the small side as far as bathrooms go.
Q. And there’s not a lot of room to maneuver in the bathroom with two people and a child. Is there?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay. (Pause) What made you take the memory card out after you say you’ve been assaulted?
A. Because I don’t want him to have possession of a recording of me with only a bath towel on.
Q. Isn’t it true that there, you were concerned there were other things on the, uh, recorder that could affect your divorce case?
A. I’m not concerned. He could record our whole marriage, and I’m not concerned. So, no, ma’am.
Q. So why are you concerned about him recording you then in a - just because you had a robe on, if he can record your whole marriage?
A. I had a towel on. I don’t ----
Q. A towel.
A. ---- I don’t body parts - I’m a school teacher and I can’t have half-naked pictures of me show up (inaudible). Q. So he can’t record your whole marriage, then.
A. Well, not ----
Q. You were - you were exaggerating when you said that?
A. If I am disrobed, then ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. (Inaudible) let’s move on from there.
Q. All right. Do you have a condition, uh, called EDS that affects your skin?
A. Yes, ma’am. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. Um, it’s a genetic connective tissue disease. I do not have the type that is most known to affect skin. Um, it’s a - I can explain more about it.
Q. I’m just looking at your skin since you’ve shown pictures of your skin. Do you have a natural, sort of patchy or redness some to your skin?
A. Patchy or redness. Um, odd, but that’s not part of my genetic disease.
Q. Okay. Uh, is that something that your son also has with regards to skin or redness, or has he had issues related to that?
A. He’s had diaper rash that I’ve had to seek, um, you know, medical prescriptions for, but that’s about it.
Q. And, um, where are the pictures from February 13th, since this incident allegedly occurred approximately 6something in the morning on February 13th?
A. Where are the pictures from this?
Q. Yes.
A. Did I give you any from February 13?
MS. PHILLIPS: (Inaudible).
MS. BRYANT: Let me see that.
Q. Are there any pictures from February, the - what’s been identified as February 14th and 15th? Is that all of them.
A. I actually had given Jeff Miller even more pictures that exist in that, but when I went to his office, that’s what he gave me.
Q. Okay.
A. There could be additional pictures. The police ---
Q. So the ----
A. ---- took pictures when I got to the magistrate’s office as well, and I’m not sure where those are located currently.
Q. All right. And between the 13th and the 14th and the 15th, in February, um, who took the pictures of you?
A. Um, some of them are self-made pictures.
Q. Uh-huh.
A. Um, I remember asking my mom, um, to take a couple of them.
Q. And I’m sorry if I missed it, but what was your reason why you did not give Mr. Grodner the phone back, when he first asked for it?
A. When - can you repeat just one more time, please?
Q. What was your reason for not giving him his phone back when he first asked for it?
A. I never recalled him asking. I recall him yelling at me and pursuing me down the hallway. I never heard, “Hey, will you please give me my phone back.”
Q. Well, if we don’t - if I don’t characterized it as “asked,” when he first said something about giving his - giving him his phone back, why didn’t you give it back to him?
A. He was already charging me and I was trying to get away.
Could you have dropped the phone then if - while you were allegedly from running from his charge?
A. Could I have? Was it physically possible for me to drop the phone? Yes, ma’am.
Q. You needed to get somewhere where you could get the memory card. Isn’t that what happened? And you went into the bathroom.
A. He charged me into the bathroom and shoved me into the bathtub. I don’t, I mean, it’s not like I nonchalantly just sauntered in there to perform some magic act of trickery on his cell phone.
Q. Is it your testimony today that Mr. - your son was on - in his arms, and he used, I guess, did his - did your son touch you, according to your statement of events? Was - did your son touch you as well, since you say he - by the way you described Mr. Grodner’s alleged body push or body check. Is that what your testimony is?
A. Can you re-, uh, say it one more time?
Q. Was your son - did you touch your son or was your son touching you when this alleged body check occurred, since Mr. Grodner had him in his hand?
A. I don’t know if my son touched me. I know that a man touched me (phonetic); whether like my infant son’s leg brushed me or rubbed up against me. That’s not what I remember. I remember him checking me into the bathtub.
And you don’t remember him using his hand to push, or taking his hand and pushing you, do you?
A. I remember more like a body, body thrust. Less than hands.
Q. How did you hurt your knee if you fell - did you fall back into the bathtub?
A. There’s an edge - there’s a tub, in addition to the shower.
Q. Uh-huh.
A. The edge of the tub is what hit my leg for the bruise on my leg, because he pushed me into the left side of it.
Q. He pushed you, and did you allegedly fall back, though, when he pushed you?
A. I fell all the way into the bathtub, and I ended up in the tub.
Q. Did you end up - did you end up on your bottom?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. So you, he - he pushed you, you say, and you fell back on your bottom. Is that right?
A. I fell way back more than on my bottom. I was laying down in the tub by the time he got finished with me.
Q. Well, you don’t have any pictures or any alleged injuries to your back or your neck part because there weren’t any, were there?
A. My left arm was injured, as well as my left leg. Why or why not my neck or back was not injured, I cannot explain to you.
Q. And you did not seek medical treatment, did you?
A. For bruises? No, ma’am.
Q. So they weren’t that serious? I mean, why did you ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. (Inaudible).
Q. Your - your statement for bruises - do you mean, was that a ridiculous question?
A. I mean, I - would you - am I supposed to go in an ambulance to get a bruise checked out? I mean, I had bruises. What he did was wrong and violent and bruised my body. But I’m not going to wait in line at urgent care for bruises on my body and they tell you to apply an ice pack and take some ibuprofen and go home. I mean that’s a wasted copay in my view.
Q. Oh. And at that time you were a homemaker. Is that right? And a graduate student?
A. I was a graduate student and stay-at-home mom. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And you, I believe you testified you got married when, June 2010?
A. That is correct.
Q. And how long have you known Mr. Grodner before you got married?
A. We met in January, so about five months.
Q. Okay. And, uh, you met him online, didn’t you?
A. That’s correct. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. When you say Mr., uh, Grodner, uh, body checked you, uh, did he fall into the bathtub also?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. If you lost your balance, um, and fell - or you say he pushed you in the bathtub, did-did you keep the phone in your hand? Were you able to hold onto the phone when you fell?
A. All I know is that the phone ended up in the bottom of the tub with me. I don’t remember if I fell with it in my hand or if I dropped it into the tub before or after I fell.
MS. BRYANT: No further questions at this time. I may need to call her later in my case.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MS. PHILLIPS: Briefly, Judge.
THE COURT: Yes, ma’am.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. PHILLIPS:
00:56:24
Q. So by the time it was all said and done, you were on your back? (Inaudible)
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. You hit other stuff along the way.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Now, prior, the day before this, um, well, the 11th and 12th
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. ---- you had asked him to leave multiple times. Is that what you testified to? (Inaudible)
A. Yes, ma’am.
MS. BRYANT: Objection. No. That’s not what she testified to: “multiple times.”
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
Q. And then, after you asked him to leave, is that when you noticed the chains on the door in the nursery?
A. I asked him to leave on Monday evening, and I noticed the chains on Tuesday morning for the first time.
Q. And that was - that bedroom then, that the chains were on, was that your nursery or was that a spare room? A. That was my son’s nursery.
MS. PHILLIPS: questions. Judge, I have no further
THE COURT: questions, Ms. Bryant? Okay. Anything based on those
MS. BRYANT: No. Thank you.
THE COURT:
Ms. Phillips? (Inaudible) you may step down.
MS. PHILLIPS: Um, the State would call Officer Brown.
Q. Ms. Grodner, I believe you said that - testified that Mr. Grodner had moved out, you say, August or so of 2012. Isn’t it true that you all went to Florida on a trip in December 2012 as a family?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And is it also true that in January of 2013, you went to a hotel in Raleigh for a trip and you spent the night there ----
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. ---- as husband and his wife? Okay. Um, you have mentioned, uh, Ms. Brooks. Are you aware that I-I subpoenaed Ms. Brooks to court today?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. All right. Uh, isn’t it true that immediately prior to the incident on February 13, you and Ms. Brooks had been communicating with each other back and forth about how you could get Andrzej out of the house and be successful in your divorce case against him?
A. I would say that I was - she told me to leave him. I remember that.
Q. Do you remember her telling you to tell someone that he was going to take the child to Poland?
A. She didn’t have to.
Q. So that it would help him. Did she tell you that?
A. I don’t remember.
Q. Okay. You don’t have any memory of Ms. - her advising you to tell your lawyer that in order for you to gain advantage in your divorce case?
A. I don’t, I mean, I don’t remember every single text that I’ve sent or received.
Q. Okay. Do you remember talking about how you can
get alimony and her giving you advice on that ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
Q. ---- on February - excuse me - on February 12th?
THE COURT: So the question is do you remember her telling you about how to get alimony on February the 12th?
MS. BRYANT: 2013.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. BRYANT: occurred, Your Honor. Right before this alleged incident
THE COURT: Your objection is based on relevance?
MS. PHILLIPS: It, I mean, yes.
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
Q. Do you recall her talking with you about how to get alimony?
A. No, ma’am. I’m sure, I mean, it’s obvious that you have the text messages, so I won’t dispute it, but if you ask me if I remember, I do not recall.
Q. Okay. Do you recall asking her the question of how to get alimony?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Do you recall that? You don’t recall that?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay. Uh, is it your testimony under oath today that you have no memory of your own of-of discussions with
Ms. Brooks about how to get alimony?
A. How to get alimony? No. I don’t remember the specific conversations if that’s your question.
Q. Do you remember any general conversations?
A. I remember telling her about my marital problems with Andrzej, and I remember her telling me that I should leave him, based on his actions.
Q. Um, do you recall asking her, or her telling you, to get full custody, say he threatened to take your child to another country?
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection. I-I’m just renewing my objection at this point. I mean, if the question was, perhaps, tell the police - did she say, “Tell the police he pushed her in the bathtub so that you can get a divorce,” I think we’re looking at a different thing. But right now you’re talking about alimony and taking the kid to Poland, I mean ----
THE COURT: I understand the objection.
MS. BRYANT: And the motive is ----
THE COURT: It goes to impeachment.
MS. BRYANT: ---- It goes to impeachment. Also
to motive as to why this claim is being made.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. BRYANT: And that’s the only reason.
THE COURT: (Inaudible). Overruled. MS. BRYANT: Okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MS. GRODNER BY MS. BRYANT CONTINUES:
Q. Why did you call Valerie Brooks before you called the police on that morning?
A. I was scared, and I was shaken, and I don’t have frequent courtroom experience or I’m-I’m not, I mean, I’m a special education teacher and I don’t know what to do. So that’s, I mean.
Q. What did she tell you to do?
A. Call 9-1-1.
Q. Did she call 9-1-1 for you?
A. She also called 9-1-1, in addition to me calling independently.
Q. Do you recall her texting you saying that she was going to call 9-1-1?
A. Um, she left me a voicemail, um, in addition to me talking to her. I don’t remember the specific content of that whole thing.
Q. You called your mother, didn’t you, before you called the police, as well?
A. Yes. I don’t deny that. I also called my mom. I had no idea what to do. I also called Melba Buck (phonetic) because I had no idea what to do. And they all told me to call 9-1-1.
Q. Okay. Let me ask you this about the-the incident. You, on February, Monday, February the, um, 11th, you called Mr. Grodner and told him that you wanted him to move out of the marital home, didn’t you?
A. I didn’t have to call him and tell him that.
Q. Did you - objection, Your Honor. Would you ask her to answer the question? The question was, “Did you call him?”
THE COURT: You need to answer yes or no
(inaudible) explaining or anything. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
Q. Did you call him on February 11 and tell him you wanted him to move out of the-the marital home?
A. I recall that as a face-to-face conversation.
Q. Tell me when that occurred then.
A. In the evening, after he got home.
Q. Okay. And it’s your testimony under oath today that you did not call him when he was not at home and tell him that over the phone?
A. I - in addition, I could have done that. But I re- I recall telling, or asking, him to leave.
Q. Do you recall him asking you whether or not you had an order to make him leave the marital home? Do you recall him asking you that?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. You don’t recall him asking you anything about a court order?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Do you recall telling him anything about you were going to get one?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. All right. On - you say that Mr. Grodner put a chain lock on his door. Isn’t it true that he did that on, um, Tuesday, after you had asked him to leave? On a door in the home?
A. I discovered it on Tuesday, after I had asked him to leave, and it was on the inside of my son’s bedroom door. Q. Okay. Are you suggesting that perhaps he had done it beforehand and you didn’t see it, or are you not admitting that he put it up there after you asked him to leave?
A. I’m just saying that I definitely know that it was there as of Tuesday morning. Um, so that’s what I feel comfortable in a hundred percent telling you.
Q. All right.
A. So, if - if I discovered it Tuesday morning and I asked him to leave Monday night, then, logically, he would have put it up there following my request.
Q. Okay. And there is - as far as your son’s room is concerned, there is a webcam in that room, in that nursery, so you, for you to see what’s going on in there, isn’t it? Isn’t there?
A. At the time, there was. Yes, ma’am.
Q. All right. Now you testified that you allegedly had fear, or those types of things, when this was going on.
Why did you give him the phone back?
A. Give who the ----
Mr. Grodner - the phone. His phone. Why did you give him his phone?
A. Why did I return to him his phone?
Q. That’s - that’s the question.
A. Because why would I keep it? It’s his phone.
Q. Okay. You testified you took the phone from him. I believe you used the word “plucked.” Do you use the word “pluck” to - so it won’t seem as if you touched him when you got - took it from him?
A. I used the word “pluck” because it’s a factual representation of what I did, and I did not touch him.
Q. Okay. Uh-huh. And, uh, when you took the phone when he - did he ask for you to return the phone? Did he say, “Give me my phone, please give me my phone”? Did he ever say that to you?
A. He was screaming and hollering and charging at me. I don’t know if he ever specifically said, “Please return my phone to me.”
Q. Do you recall him saying anything about giving him your phone [sic], or is it your testimony he just was charging at you and not saying anything about giving him the phone?
A. I’m not sure what the specific content of his words was while he was charging me because I was scared because he was charging me and he had my child, so. When you say, “charge,” ---- A. (Inaudible).
Q. ---- what do you mean? You mean, did he run you down. Is that what you’re gonna [sic] say today; is that your testimony?
A. Absolutely. Yes. He pursued, and I retreated.
Q. Okay. And all the time you had the phone in your hand. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You never gave him the phone - you never gave him the phone back to stop this alleged charging, did you?
A. It was too late. He already pushed me down, by that - I mean, I didn’t have time to - he didn’t sit down and ask for a pleasant exchange. He was screaming at me, hollering, running, holding my - I mean, I wouldn’t say “running,” but ----
Q. Okay.
A. ---- he was pursuing me and I was retreating.
Q. How long did it take you to pluck the phone away from him?
A. Quick; seconds.
Q. You don’t think it would have taken you the same amount of time to give it back to him?
A. He was already charging me, so I didn’t know, like, how am I supposed to know what will stop a man who’s hurting (phonetic) me? Who’s pursuing me.
Q. Screaming if he was to ask you to give him the phone back. Wasn’t he?
A. Well, he-I did give him back ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. I gave it back, um, after he knocked me into the bathtub. I just handed it up to him.
Q. Your testimony is you handed him the phone after you say he pushed you into the bathtub. Is that what your testimony is today?
A. Either that or I left it in the bathroom.
Q. Okay.
A. (Inaudible).
Q. It was left in the bathtub, wasn’t it?
A. You know, I don’t - this has been almost a year, so I’m a little hazy, but I know that I did not retain it in my possession or try to keep it from him.
Q. Did you take any medications on that morning?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Have - do you have any medications that have been prescribed to you by a psychiatrist?
A. No, ma’am.
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. No, ma’am. I don’t.
Q. Okay. And isn’t it true that although you say he allegedly pushed you in the bathtub and you feared, you were in fear, you took the memory card out of the phone before you got out of the bathroom?
A. I took it out. Yes.
Q. You took a memory card out of a phone after you say you were charged and assaulted. You took a memory card out of the phone.
A. While he was pursuing me, I was able to take it out. I worked for Verizon Wireless for years.
Q. Your testimony is you took it out before you, um, fell in the bathtub?
A. I’m not sure if I took it out before - by the time I was at the bottom of the bathtub and he had already assaulted me, I had that memory card.
Q. Why would you say the “bottom of the bathtub”? What - do you have some type of deep bath or is it just a regular, standard bathtub?
A. I guess it’s just an improper adjective I’m using - “bottom.” I mean I was not beside the tub; I was at the bottom of it.
Q. Does it suggest to you sort of like a - a push is something that’s more significant to say “at the bottom of the tub” instead of you were pushed in the tub?
A. Well, it’s not the side or the top of the tub. It’s not the top of the tub. It’s the bottom of the tub. I teach English language lessons almost every day.
Q. Isn’t it true that you were attempting to, um, throw the - it, the phone - into the commode, and that is what happened with you, if there was any contact between you and Mr. Grodner, that’s where it came, with you trying to throw the phone into the commode?
A. It was never my intent to throw anything into a toilet.
Q. Now, you’ve thrown things of his in the toilet before, recording devices, haven’t you?
A. That Saturday, yes, I did.
Q. Okay. And that, was that, uh, this type of recorder? Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
A. It was one similar to that. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And you flushed it down the commode, didn’t you?
A. Yes, ma’am. He was recording me, um, at a children’s birthday party ---
Q. Uh-huh.
A. --- (inaudible), and I saw no reason for it. I mean, who does that?
Q. Okay.
A. So I flushed it down the toilet at (inaudible) because there’s no reason to record a children’s birthday party at (inaudible).
Q. And you, Mr. Grodner pled and begged you to give you his phone back before, um, you got near the commode, didn’t he?
A. Pled and begged?
Q. That’s correct.
A. He was screaming at me.
Q. Okay.
A. Hollering, yelling.
Q. You’re aware that that - where is that memory card?
A. I still have it.
Q. Where is it?
A. Um, most likely my house.
Q. Okay. And you say the recorder was on, don’t you?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. (Inaudible). Okay. And you didn’t bring it to court today to show the Court to hear what occurred between you and Mr. Grodner, did you?
A. It never recorded. It never even recorded. I have it. It never recorded.
Q. What do you mean, “It never recorded”?
A. I mean he was doing like this, like he was recording. He had a history of recording me, and - but when I got the memory card, there was no recording of that episode on it. He has a voice-activated, uh, recorder planted on him when the police arrested him. You can ask him about that.
Q. I’m asking you about the recorder. The digital recorder.
A. Okay. Well, I don’t have, um, a video to show you on a memory card because none exists.
Q. When did you look at it, the mem- what was on the memory card?
A. Probably, the next day.
Q. Are you aware that you’re under oath and your testimony could be used in your divorce and financial issues cases?
A. Absolutely. (inaudible)
Q. And so your testi-, your testimony is you have the memory card at home?
A. Yes. I do have the memory card at home.
Q. Isn’t it true that, um, after you went downstairs, uh, in the laundry room, prior to the police coming, that you and Mr. Grodner took care of Lucas together in the same room before the police came?
A. I wouldn’t say that we took care of Lucas together. I took care of Lucas while Andrzej hovered over me, saying,
“You weren’t scared, were you; you didn’t feel threatened, did you; I didn’t hurt you, did I?” as I changed the baby’s diaper.
Q. Okay. So you - the point is you went back into his presence.
A. To get my son. Absolutely.
Q. Okay. And so you, the both, the two of you were in the room together. Is that right?
A. We were in the hallway together, of our upstairs. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Now, now Mr. Grodner knew that you took the memory card. Um, he noticed that, didn’t he?
A. I’m sure he was aware of it by that time. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Did he do anything to you, once he knew you had the memory card, when you left out with the memory card?
A. Other than apologize for assaulting me, no, ma’am.
Q. Mmm. Didn’t try to get it from you, did he? Didn’t try to grab the memory card from you, did he? A. There was no further assault.
Q. He didn’t run downstairs and follow you to the laundry room to try to get the memory card, did he?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. And no one’s in the house but you and Mr. Grodner and Lucas. Is that right?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Has Ms. Grodner advised - I’m sorry, Ms., um, Ms. Brooks, advise you per text communications to be dishonest if you have to in order to get Lucas in court?
A. I’m sure she has.
Q. And have you responded to her, “Cool,” when - and she has advised you of that? Do you recall responding, “Cool,” c-o-o-l?
A. I’m sure I would say, “Cool,” even if I hadn’t lied to you and I never would. And I would never lie to anyone in court, but I’m not going to say, “What’s wrong with you? You’re so ghetto. You actually lie on the stand.” I would never do - I’m not going to say that to my friend. So I just said, “Okay, cool.” You can’t tell (inaudible).
Q. And you continued to seek advice from her after that, didn’t you, about how to handle the situation?
A. I’m sure I have, but just because I asked her questions doesn’t mean I’m going to do everything that she says that I should do.
Q. Did you get an order, on February 13th?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And that’s been dismissed, hasn’t it? That DVPO. The dom- the civil domestic violence protective order case has been dismissed. Is that correct?
A. I agreed to drop it.
Q. Okay.
A. On the condition - I can explain it if you ask, I guess.
Q. I asked you had it been dismissed.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. You have a small bathroom, don’t you, Ms., uh, Grodner?
A. I would say it’s on the small side as far as bathrooms go.
Q. And there’s not a lot of room to maneuver in the bathroom with two people and a child. Is there?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay. (Pause) What made you take the memory card out after you say you’ve been assaulted?
A. Because I don’t want him to have possession of a recording of me with only a bath towel on.
Q. Isn’t it true that there, you were concerned there were other things on the, uh, recorder that could affect your divorce case?
A. I’m not concerned. He could record our whole marriage, and I’m not concerned. So, no, ma’am.
Q. So why are you concerned about him recording you then in a - just because you had a robe on, if he can record your whole marriage?
A. I had a towel on. I don’t ----
Q. A towel.
A. ---- I don’t body parts - I’m a school teacher and I can’t have half-naked pictures of me show up (inaudible). Q. So he can’t record your whole marriage, then.
A. Well, not ----
Q. You were - you were exaggerating when you said that?
A. If I am disrobed, then ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. (Inaudible) let’s move on from there.
Q. All right. Do you have a condition, uh, called EDS that affects your skin?
A. Yes, ma’am. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. Um, it’s a genetic connective tissue disease. I do not have the type that is most known to affect skin. Um, it’s a - I can explain more about it.
Q. I’m just looking at your skin since you’ve shown pictures of your skin. Do you have a natural, sort of patchy or redness some to your skin?
A. Patchy or redness. Um, odd, but that’s not part of my genetic disease.
Q. Okay. Uh, is that something that your son also has with regards to skin or redness, or has he had issues related to that?
A. He’s had diaper rash that I’ve had to seek, um, you know, medical prescriptions for, but that’s about it.
Q. And, um, where are the pictures from February 13th, since this incident allegedly occurred approximately 6something in the morning on February 13th?
A. Where are the pictures from this?
Q. Yes.
A. Did I give you any from February 13?
MS. PHILLIPS: (Inaudible).
MS. BRYANT: Let me see that.
Q. Are there any pictures from February, the - what’s been identified as February 14th and 15th? Is that all of them.
A. I actually had given Jeff Miller even more pictures that exist in that, but when I went to his office, that’s what he gave me.
Q. Okay.
A. There could be additional pictures. The police ---
Q. So the ----
A. ---- took pictures when I got to the magistrate’s office as well, and I’m not sure where those are located currently.
Q. All right. And between the 13th and the 14th and the 15th, in February, um, who took the pictures of you?
A. Um, some of them are self-made pictures.
Q. Uh-huh.
A. Um, I remember asking my mom, um, to take a couple of them.
Q. And I’m sorry if I missed it, but what was your reason why you did not give Mr. Grodner the phone back, when he first asked for it?
A. When - can you repeat just one more time, please?
Q. What was your reason for not giving him his phone back when he first asked for it?
A. I never recalled him asking. I recall him yelling at me and pursuing me down the hallway. I never heard, “Hey, will you please give me my phone back.”
Q. Well, if we don’t - if I don’t characterized it as “asked,” when he first said something about giving his - giving him his phone back, why didn’t you give it back to him?
A. He was already charging me and I was trying to get away.
Could you have dropped the phone then if - while you were allegedly from running from his charge?
A. Could I have? Was it physically possible for me to drop the phone? Yes, ma’am.
Q. You needed to get somewhere where you could get the memory card. Isn’t that what happened? And you went into the bathroom.
A. He charged me into the bathroom and shoved me into the bathtub. I don’t, I mean, it’s not like I nonchalantly just sauntered in there to perform some magic act of trickery on his cell phone.
Q. Is it your testimony today that Mr. - your son was on - in his arms, and he used, I guess, did his - did your son touch you, according to your statement of events? Was - did your son touch you as well, since you say he - by the way you described Mr. Grodner’s alleged body push or body check. Is that what your testimony is?
A. Can you re-, uh, say it one more time?
Q. Was your son - did you touch your son or was your son touching you when this alleged body check occurred, since Mr. Grodner had him in his hand?
A. I don’t know if my son touched me. I know that a man touched me (phonetic); whether like my infant son’s leg brushed me or rubbed up against me. That’s not what I remember. I remember him checking me into the bathtub.
And you don’t remember him using his hand to push, or taking his hand and pushing you, do you?
A. I remember more like a body, body thrust. Less than hands.
Q. How did you hurt your knee if you fell - did you fall back into the bathtub?
A. There’s an edge - there’s a tub, in addition to the shower.
Q. Uh-huh.
A. The edge of the tub is what hit my leg for the bruise on my leg, because he pushed me into the left side of it.
Q. He pushed you, and did you allegedly fall back, though, when he pushed you?
A. I fell all the way into the bathtub, and I ended up in the tub.
Q. Did you end up - did you end up on your bottom?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. So you, he - he pushed you, you say, and you fell back on your bottom. Is that right?
A. I fell way back more than on my bottom. I was laying down in the tub by the time he got finished with me.
Q. Well, you don’t have any pictures or any alleged injuries to your back or your neck part because there weren’t any, were there?
A. My left arm was injured, as well as my left leg. Why or why not my neck or back was not injured, I cannot explain to you.
Q. And you did not seek medical treatment, did you?
A. For bruises? No, ma’am.
Q. So they weren’t that serious? I mean, why did you ----
MS. PHILLIPS: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. (Inaudible).
Q. Your - your statement for bruises - do you mean, was that a ridiculous question?
A. I mean, I - would you - am I supposed to go in an ambulance to get a bruise checked out? I mean, I had bruises. What he did was wrong and violent and bruised my body. But I’m not going to wait in line at urgent care for bruises on my body and they tell you to apply an ice pack and take some ibuprofen and go home. I mean that’s a wasted copay in my view.
Q. Oh. And at that time you were a homemaker. Is that right? And a graduate student?
A. I was a graduate student and stay-at-home mom. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And you, I believe you testified you got married when, June 2010?
A. That is correct.
Q. And how long have you known Mr. Grodner before you got married?
A. We met in January, so about five months.
Q. Okay. And, uh, you met him online, didn’t you?
A. That’s correct. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. When you say Mr., uh, Grodner, uh, body checked you, uh, did he fall into the bathtub also?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. If you lost your balance, um, and fell - or you say he pushed you in the bathtub, did-did you keep the phone in your hand? Were you able to hold onto the phone when you fell?
A. All I know is that the phone ended up in the bottom of the tub with me. I don’t remember if I fell with it in my hand or if I dropped it into the tub before or after I fell.
MS. BRYANT: No further questions at this time. I may need to call her later in my case.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MS. PHILLIPS: Briefly, Judge.
THE COURT: Yes, ma’am.
00:56:24
Q. Uh, Ms. Grodner, now when you initially fell into the bathtub, did you fall straight back or did you fall towards your side?
A. Um, when he pushed me, I went over the edge of the tub, um, and my left side kind of fell first, and I ended up all the way down at the bottom.Q. So by the time it was all said and done, you were on your back? (Inaudible)
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. You hit other stuff along the way.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Now, prior, the day before this, um, well, the 11th and 12th
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. ---- you had asked him to leave multiple times. Is that what you testified to? (Inaudible)
A. Yes, ma’am.
MS. BRYANT: Objection. No. That’s not what she testified to: “multiple times.”
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
Q. And then, after you asked him to leave, is that when you noticed the chains on the door in the nursery?
A. I asked him to leave on Monday evening, and I noticed the chains on Tuesday morning for the first time.
Q. And that was - that bedroom then, that the chains were on, was that your nursery or was that a spare room? A. That was my son’s nursery.
MS. PHILLIPS: questions. Judge, I have no further
THE COURT: questions, Ms. Bryant? Okay. Anything based on those
MS. BRYANT: No. Thank you.
THE COURT:
Ms. Phillips? (Inaudible) you may step down.
MS. PHILLIPS: Um, the State would call Officer Brown.
